Posts by Joe Grundy

25

wife asked me a good question about control mechanism of DFing.....

by oompa in

when i told her i would never go back and meetings make me sick, i mentioned how df was a control mechanism meant to keep people in the org.......and that was when i told her i really dont want to be df'd.

i prob should have said it was used to keep people in line....actually should have never told her what i thought df was.......cause the conversation was already bad....... but she asked "why would the gb use it or view it as a "control mechanism?

" what would be their motive?...i have always been taught it is just the bibles way of keeping the cong.

Joe Grundy

'The primary reason for disfellowshipping is to "keep the congregation clean." That's code for keeping the unbelieving
one or the one practicing actions against WT policy from affecting the congregation members- taking them out with him.'

I never was a JW, and now I'm an atheist.

Considering this logically (and perhaps 'logic' and 'JW' should not appear in the same sentence) IF the JWs were the one true religion, under the protection of an omniscient and all-powerful god, directed on earth by some 'chosen ones' with direct comms with said god, why should they be scared that some individual with an enquiring mind could taint them?

Their writings say that god can and did strike people down at will (though apparently he got a bit more liberal in later years) so what have they got to fear? There were 'striking downs' in the NT, and even here in Paphos Jesus Barabbas allegedly got blinded in a show-down with Saul/Paul.

On the basis that their god could instantly kill/make dumb/whatever anyone who was a threat I think that they're displaying a lack of faith in their own teachings.

Oh, and when things go wrong or get difficult, don't the hierarchy teach that god is testing them and 'tempering them in the fire of faith'? Couldn't letting some thinkers and questioners loose among the 'faithful' be seen in the same (new) light?

Perhaps the D/F practice is all about control, after all. I like the analogy quoted about the schoolkids choosing to exclude just one kid.

14

WTF? Anyone else get this?

by AWAKE&WATCHING in

got this in a pm about three days ago so sorry if it's been discussed.

from: scott williams., .

country: ivory coast .

Joe Grundy

It's a '419' scam.

Try www.scambuster419.co.uk/ and many other similar sites for more info (and a good laugh).

36

How did you feel about attending another church?

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

this question is for those who have attended another church since leaving the jw's.. i have considered attending a local church, firstly out of curiosity and secondly because i do enjoy discussing the bible with people and learning new thoughts on scripture.. the only thing that stops me though is crossing that line.

i guess it was a bit like when i first posted here, it took me ages to pluck up the courage and now what was the big deal?.

did anyone else have this feeling before attending another church, that feeling of crossing the line of no return.

Joe Grundy

I am not and never have been a JW, so please take my opinions with that in mind. I am also now a 'worldly' atheist.

I have been to a couple of JW 'meetings' - and a couple was all it took to recognise the brainwashing that was going on. Interestingly, at the first one some old dear got the microphone and started mentioning Russell, 'our beloved pastor' but she soon lost the mic. All very different to the spontaneity I was used to.

(A sad side-note. One of my friends here, an 80+ guy, had the privilege of reading out the paragraph in the WTBTS mag at the meeting. He was a really nice guy, and I am friends with his widow. Last year, after having being diagnosed with terminal cancer, he drowned himself in our communal swimming pool. Poor old bugger, I think, after wasting so much of his life devoted to a lie. And the faithful and loving JWs who would rally round the widow? Forget it! It's us 'worldlies' who do that. Rant over.)

I am Welsh, and we have a tradition of singing and music. If you have never heard a Welsh Male Voice Choir, you have missed out. And if you've never heard the festival of 1000 Welsh male voices singing old hymns, you won't understand.

There is a word in Welsh - 'hiraeth' - which means the longing for the homeland. It is inextricably linked with old Welsh hymns. Even if you question the reality of the words, it can get to you.

And, I guess, that's true of much church/chapel music.

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

Just a comment on the title of this thread.

'Shepherding' is of course short for 'sheep-herding'. Have you ever seen a real shepherd working with sheep-dogs and a flock of sheep? It is quite amazing. The shepherd has the overview and communicates with the sheep-dogs by voice or whistled commands. The dogs herd the flock until they are exactly where required - and can separate individual sheep into pens, etc., even though the dogs don't understand why they're doing it. Trained sheep-dogs will herd sheep even in the absence of the shepherd, although, of course, the results will be random and of no practical use - it's just what they are trained and conditioned to do: 'there's a sheep, I'll go herd it somewhere'.

I don't know whether this analogy is of use or not, but I offer it anyway.

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

And sometimes 50 is an ideal age to sit down and re-evaluate your life and do something about it (in my experience, anyway).

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

Oompa - I never was a JW so have no personal experience.

I am worldly (very), 'bad association' (for sure).

But I feel for you and extend support and best wishes.

36

How did you feel about attending another church?

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

this question is for those who have attended another church since leaving the jw's.. i have considered attending a local church, firstly out of curiosity and secondly because i do enjoy discussing the bible with people and learning new thoughts on scripture.. the only thing that stops me though is crossing that line.

i guess it was a bit like when i first posted here, it took me ages to pluck up the courage and now what was the big deal?.

did anyone else have this feeling before attending another church, that feeling of crossing the line of no return.

Joe Grundy

I am not and never was a JW, so take my opinions with that in mind.

When I was a 'christian' in the general not JW meaning I went to a number of churches/chapels/call them what you will.

More often than not, though I could not share their beliefs, I was genuinely impressed by the genuine warmth, sincerity and care that many of the people exhibited.

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

the earth is flat, the moon is made of green cheese, or that the Pope is Muslim

You mean they're not? And it doesn't all calculate to 1914?

Bugger it! Must rethink my new religion. Back soon.

Yours

C T Russell

39

Stupid Memorial

by PanzerZauberei in

jw
friends

well, i am gonna have to go again because my wife wants to go this year.

she missed last year because she was sick and was so depressed about it for a month after because of the guilt her stupid family laid upon my poor darling.

last night she was visiting her dad (the only one who didn't guilt her) and he asked if she was going to go this year.

Joe Grundy

I have never been a dub.

I went to one of these a couple of years ago, thinking my JW neighbours/friends could get some brownie points from my attendance. I think I spoiled that by having a cigarette outside (before and after) and because I learned a couple of Hebrew words ('have a good passover - 'tov' something) which I said to the people either side of me when they passed the goodies round.

All brownie points were cancelled the following week when a young Filipina lady moved in with me. All I can say is that I'm glad that she is a roman catholic 'cos she seems to have violated all the points on the dubs' d/f list. Luckily, of course, not being dubs we never had to go before a JC to outline our 'sins'. But she liked talking about stuff in great detail and would probably have enjoyed the discussion. There would not have been a dry seat in the house.

40

"And how old is the Proclaimers book?"

by passwordprotected in

i had a frank discussion with my parents yesterday that ended up in the cul-de-sac of "how did the organisation start?

" i told them that all they need to know about the origins of the org are in the proclaimers book, of how chuck started his own religion, or how he got his ideas from the adventists and a lovely fellow called barbour and how chuck preached that christ had returned in 1874 and that the last days had started in 1799.. my parents were unwilling to accept this, so i said, "read your proclaimers book!

y'know what my mum's answer to that was?.

Joe Grundy

I am an outsider (never a dub), worldly (very), and so my views and opinions may not count for much.

When Russell started his religion (at a time and in a place where many new religions were kicking off) he was 'locked into' the 'science' of the time. Archaeology had not been accepted as a 'science', many thought - following Usher - that the world was 6000 years old, etc.

No problem - except for religions which taught (and still do, as far as I am aware) that their god was omniscient, all-powerful, and never changing. Whoops! Always big problems, of course, trying to reconcile the killing, raping, pillaging god of the OT with the Pauline liberal stuff in the NT, but as far as Russell and other loonies of their time (Smith, to name just one) were concerned they could speculate away 'safe' in their knowledge that nobody could contradict them.

Now we can - and the contradictions will only increase as scientific methods are developed.

To me, it's a bit like DNA - we can go back to 'cold cases' and re-investigate (cf. the poor bugger just released in the UK after serving 27 years for a murder he could not have committed).

If I was Mr Russell today, starting a new religion, I'd be a bit wary.